Comments on: The Fallacy of Management http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/ Passionate about Startups and MicroISVs Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:42:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Gates VP http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/comment-page-1/#comment-813 Gates VP Sat, 03 Nov 2007 22:54:38 +0000 http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/#comment-813 Hey man, I didn't even notice the ping-back, thanks :) As to this <i>Secondly, I question whether 10 years will make a difference in the cycle of developers moving into management.</i> I'm still young (27), so maybe I'm just being overly optimistic. I do know that I'm seeing something turn over the last year that wasn't true 20 years ago: 1. Nearly all companies are touched by technologies! 2. Lots of them have seen the effects of bad technology. I see this b/c of the sheer # of people who come in with shitty projects done in 2000-2004 and they're realizing the inadequacy of the project. The project they want me to do is usually their 2nd or 3rd project, and they now have a much better taste for what "software means". Software is non-material concept that's inherently difficult to grasp. What's more, it's a concept that is/was unfamiliar to many business owners. But that <i>is</i> is becoming a <i>was</i>. Nearly all business stakeholders are becoming familiar with software. This is where I hold out hope in 10 years. That will give us another whole cycle. In 10 years, I'll have clients on their 3rd or 4th or 5th generation of software. When the clients get there, they will have a much better concept of "software", they will understand more and demand more. They will know that we are not cogs, they will meet a great programmer, they will appreciate the value and strength of "domain knowledge". And we the software companies will be required to deliver at a significantly higher level. I'm just hoping that by then, we'll have weeded out the guys who carry too much weight in the middle :) Hey man, I didn’t even notice the ping-back, thanks :)

As to this Secondly, I question whether 10 years will make a difference in the cycle of developers moving into management.

I’m still young (27), so maybe I’m just being overly optimistic. I do know that I’m seeing something turn over the last year that wasn’t true 20 years ago:
1. Nearly all companies are touched by technologies!
2. Lots of them have seen the effects of bad technology.

I see this b/c of the sheer # of people who come in with shitty projects done in 2000-2004 and they’re realizing the inadequacy of the project. The project they want me to do is usually their 2nd or 3rd project, and they now have a much better taste for what “software means”.

Software is non-material concept that’s inherently difficult to grasp. What’s more, it’s a concept that is/was unfamiliar to many business owners. But that is is becoming a was. Nearly all business stakeholders are becoming familiar with software.

This is where I hold out hope in 10 years. That will give us another whole cycle. In 10 years, I’ll have clients on their 3rd or 4th or 5th generation of software. When the clients get there, they will have a much better concept of “software”, they will understand more and demand more. They will know that we are not cogs, they will meet a great programmer, they will appreciate the value and strength of “domain knowledge”.

And we the software companies will be required to deliver at a significantly higher level. I’m just hoping that by then, we’ll have weeded out the guys who carry too much weight in the middle :)

]]> By: Jason http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/comment-page-1/#comment-792 Jason Fri, 02 Nov 2007 06:25:23 +0000 http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/#comment-792 A good manager is * extremely hard to find * invaluable * one of the most important members of the team A bad manager is * common * dead weight * counterproductive Here's the thing: developers, especially great ones, typically make terrible managers. It takes a very, very special person to make the jump from developing to managing people. The one's that do that successfully end up running companies. The rest just hinder future developers. Sad truth. Bottom line: management is critical and that is why so few software projects get done at an enterprise scale. Good managers are hard to find; great ones are near impossible. A good manager is
* extremely hard to find
* invaluable
* one of the most important members of the team

A bad manager is
* common
* dead weight
* counterproductive

Here’s the thing: developers, especially great ones, typically make terrible managers. It takes a very, very special person to make the jump from developing to managing people. The one’s that do that successfully end up running companies. The rest just hinder future developers. Sad truth.

Bottom line: management is critical and that is why so few software projects get done at an enterprise scale. Good managers are hard to find; great ones are near impossible.

]]> By: Mooch http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/comment-page-1/#comment-692 Mooch Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:35:24 +0000 http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/#comment-692 My previous comment continued... I had previously created this article at my current job and thought I should post it to back up my previous comment: http://www.moochweb.com/roles.aspx My previous comment continued…

I had previously created this article at my current job and thought I should post it to back up my previous comment: http://www.moochweb.com/roles.aspx

]]> By: Mooch http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/comment-page-1/#comment-685 Mooch Fri, 19 Oct 2007 14:18:47 +0000 http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/#comment-685 Your insights are based on a best case scenario. A team of mid-high quality programmers without management would likely not develop into a highly uccessful team on their own. They would develop into something, but none the less, someone would eventually take the "management role". I see project teams as a group of people that play roles. Not necessarily a group of developers with a manager above them. Your insights are based on a best case scenario. A team of mid-high quality programmers without management would likely not develop into a highly uccessful team on their own. They would develop into something, but none the less, someone would eventually take the “management role”.

I see project teams as a group of people that play roles. Not necessarily a group of developers with a manager above them.

]]> By: Jon Peltier http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/comment-page-1/#comment-671 Jon Peltier Thu, 18 Oct 2007 12:30:27 +0000 http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/#comment-671 Ten years will not make a difference. Twenty years ago I started working for the R&D department in a large corporation. They were truggling with the Technical/Management track back then, and went as far as to draw up specs (job descriptions) for the parallel steps on the two ladders. All the equal-pay, equal-authority objectives turned out to be just noise, and while technical expertise is in fact respected at this company, the technical ladder does not extend nearly as high as the management ladder. I left five years ago for different reasons, and the company is still struggling with the two tracks. At my current company, the management and technical tracks are completely integrated, and the only job description is "whatever I'm doing right now." I suspect that as soon as a company grows to more than one person that this unique situation breaks down. Ten years will not make a difference. Twenty years ago I started working for the R&D department in a large corporation. They were truggling with the Technical/Management track back then, and went as far as to draw up specs (job descriptions) for the parallel steps on the two ladders. All the equal-pay, equal-authority objectives turned out to be just noise, and while technical expertise is in fact respected at this company, the technical ladder does not extend nearly as high as the management ladder.

I left five years ago for different reasons, and the company is still struggling with the two tracks. At my current company, the management and technical tracks are completely integrated, and the only job description is “whatever I’m doing right now.” I suspect that as soon as a company grows to more than one person that this unique situation breaks down.

]]> By: Will Sargent http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/comment-page-1/#comment-665 Will Sargent Wed, 17 Oct 2007 22:49:18 +0000 http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2007/10/17/the-fallacy-of-management/#comment-665 I'd say the truth is somewhere in between. Managers aren't responsible for delivering product; neither are programmers. The team delivers product. A manager may be a functional part of the team, or damage to be worked around. I think a common management fallacy is that programmers work for managers, and managers for their bosses. Programmers and managers work for the team. The team is what produces success, and the manager can only take credit for being involved in the team. I’d say the truth is somewhere in between. Managers aren’t responsible for delivering product; neither are programmers. The team delivers product. A manager may be a functional part of the team, or damage to be worked around.

I think a common management fallacy is that programmers work for managers, and managers for their bosses. Programmers and managers work for the team. The team is what produces success, and the manager can only take credit for being involved in the team.

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