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	<title>Comments on: Expenses You Don&#8217;t Think of When Starting a Business</title>
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	<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/</link>
	<description>Passionate about Startups and MicroISVs</description>
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		<title>By: Dave @ FixmyPCHelp</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-2/#comment-36836</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave @ FixmyPCHelp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-36836</guid>
		<description>Nice post.

How about professional insurance, for the industry you&#039;re in?  Often the same as Liability but sometimes different.    

I&#039;ve also found a hidden costs of aesthetic and environmental arrangment.  In other words, I used to focus on functionality in my office, but spending more and more time there, I find it necessary (for my own sanity) to spruce up the desk, ie. keep it organized and clean, and make the office environment mentally soothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post.</p>
<p>How about professional insurance, for the industry you&#8217;re in?  Often the same as Liability but sometimes different.    </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also found a hidden costs of aesthetic and environmental arrangment.  In other words, I used to focus on functionality in my office, but spending more and more time there, I find it necessary (for my own sanity) to spruce up the desk, ie. keep it organized and clean, and make the office environment mentally soothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-22960</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-22960</guid>
		<description>Many of those expenses are one-time expenses (like incorporating, though some states have annual fees); or expenses you&#039;d likely have anyway but at least now they&#039;re tax deductible (new computer, new software, new printer).

That&#039;s not to miss the point that self-employment requires that your revenue be higher than your previous take-home salary (duh).

Having a job costs money too, the biggest being your commute.  Figure $.50/mile, even a 5 mile each way commute (which is pretty short in California), is $5/day = $100/mth.  The costs of workplace clothes, work lunches, etc. also add up.  I remember reading an article that said that if a mom decides to work outside the home, something like the first $25,000 of her salary goes to taxes, commute, clothes, daycare, and dining out before she puts any money towards family expenses.  

That&#039;s probably on the high end, but the point is you lose some expenses working from home.

As far as employer&#039;s portion of self-employment tax....your employer might write the check, but trust me, YOU are paying for it in the form of reduced salary.

If you really are so valuable to the company, you ought to be able to make more on your own assuming you can handle the business aspect.  On the other hand, if you happen to be some of the deadwood at the company, then when you leave, you&#039;ll soon discover how unprofitable you really were!  Better hope that you&#039;ve been underappreciated rather than overappreciated at work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of those expenses are one-time expenses (like incorporating, though some states have annual fees); or expenses you&#8217;d likely have anyway but at least now they&#8217;re tax deductible (new computer, new software, new printer).</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to miss the point that self-employment requires that your revenue be higher than your previous take-home salary (duh).</p>
<p>Having a job costs money too, the biggest being your commute.  Figure $.50/mile, even a 5 mile each way commute (which is pretty short in California), is $5/day = $100/mth.  The costs of workplace clothes, work lunches, etc. also add up.  I remember reading an article that said that if a mom decides to work outside the home, something like the first $25,000 of her salary goes to taxes, commute, clothes, daycare, and dining out before she puts any money towards family expenses.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s probably on the high end, but the point is you lose some expenses working from home.</p>
<p>As far as employer&#8217;s portion of self-employment tax&#8230;.your employer might write the check, but trust me, YOU are paying for it in the form of reduced salary.</p>
<p>If you really are so valuable to the company, you ought to be able to make more on your own assuming you can handle the business aspect.  On the other hand, if you happen to be some of the deadwood at the company, then when you leave, you&#8217;ll soon discover how unprofitable you really were!  Better hope that you&#8217;ve been underappreciated rather than overappreciated at work.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Jardine</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-22936</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Jardine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-22936</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been successfully self-employed for six years now. There are days I wish I had a good union job, but otherwise, no way.

However, &quot;If you count 40 hrs a work week, thats 160 hours a month.&quot; Billable hours?!? ROTFL. Oh please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been successfully self-employed for six years now. There are days I wish I had a good union job, but otherwise, no way.</p>
<p>However, &#8220;If you count 40 hrs a work week, thats 160 hours a month.&#8221; Billable hours?!? ROTFL. Oh please.</p>
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		<title>By: Startup Cost &#171; entrepreneur in training</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-16884</link>
		<dc:creator>Startup Cost &#171; entrepreneur in training</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 16:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-16884</guid>
		<description>[...] the developer to complete my project.If he is not able to complete on schedule,who bears the cost. Core Startup Expenses  Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)iPhone Costs A Mere $220 To Makefrugal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the developer to complete my project.If he is not able to complete on schedule,who bears the cost. Core Startup Expenses  Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)iPhone Costs A Mere $220 To Makefrugal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vance Lucas</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-8091</link>
		<dc:creator>Vance Lucas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-8091</guid>
		<description>I just read your article The Software Product Myth and some of the comments, and was thinking the same exact thing as you were probably thinking while reading them, and writing this followup article.  Anyone who thinks $2,500/month in just revenues is enough to live on is either:

1) Confusing &#039;revenue&#039; with &#039;profit&#039; or &#039;net pay&#039;
2) Not thinking about the self-employment taxes and other expenses you listed (at least 30% of revenue)
3) Still in school, living with their parents
4) Is still single or is married with no kids and a working spouse who is the primary breadwinner

I live in Oklahoma with a stay at home wife and 1 kid.  While I could probably manage to &quot;live&quot; on $30k/year, I certainly could not on $21k/year, which is $30k - 30% for expenses.  That&#039;s poverty-line level, folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read your article The Software Product Myth and some of the comments, and was thinking the same exact thing as you were probably thinking while reading them, and writing this followup article.  Anyone who thinks $2,500/month in just revenues is enough to live on is either:</p>
<p>1) Confusing &#8216;revenue&#8217; with &#8216;profit&#8217; or &#8216;net pay&#8217;<br />
2) Not thinking about the self-employment taxes and other expenses you listed (at least 30% of revenue)<br />
3) Still in school, living with their parents<br />
4) Is still single or is married with no kids and a working spouse who is the primary breadwinner</p>
<p>I live in Oklahoma with a stay at home wife and 1 kid.  While I could probably manage to &#8220;live&#8221; on $30k/year, I certainly could not on $21k/year, which is $30k &#8211; 30% for expenses.  That&#8217;s poverty-line level, folks.</p>
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		<title>By: My daily readings 01/16/2009 &#171; Strange Kite</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7818</link>
		<dc:creator>My daily readings 01/16/2009 &#171; Strange Kite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7818</guid>
		<description>[...] Expenses You Don&#039;t Think of When Starting a Business &#124; Software by Rob [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Expenses You Don&#8217;t Think of When Starting a Business | Software by Rob [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bloghology Social Network</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7787</link>
		<dc:creator>Bloghology Social Network</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7787</guid>
		<description>very true. many startups think that they can start any type of business without planning their finances carefully before hand. i would personally advice on adding an extra 30% on their projected budget to be on the safe side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very true. many startups think that they can start any type of business without planning their finances carefully before hand. i would personally advice on adding an extra 30% on their projected budget to be on the safe side.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve P</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7780</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7780</guid>
		<description>Once again, a great post and a satisfying stream of comments is ruined by trackback spam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, a great post and a satisfying stream of comments is ruined by trackback spam.</p>
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		<title>By: Interesting Finds: January 13, 2009 &#171; Hank Wallace</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7778</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting Finds: January 13, 2009 &#171; Hank Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7778</guid>
		<description>[...] Developer Events - Jan/Feb 2009 Pieter Gheysens - Microsoft Press Book of the month dzone - Expenses You Don&#8217;t Think of When Starting a Business Microsoft Downloads - Microsoft .NET Services White Paper (Dec 2008 CTP) Allen Eagle - Adding [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Developer Events &#8211; Jan/Feb 2009 Pieter Gheysens &#8211; Microsoft Press Book of the month dzone &#8211; Expenses You Don&#8217;t Think of When Starting a Business Microsoft Downloads &#8211; Microsoft .NET Services White Paper (Dec 2008 CTP) Allen Eagle &#8211; Adding [...]</p>
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		<title>By: 47 Hats - The MicroISV Digest</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7767</link>
		<dc:creator>47 Hats - The MicroISV Digest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7767</guid>
		<description>[...] A good post by Rob Walling: Expenses You Don&#039;t Think of When Starting a Business. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A good post by Rob Walling: Expenses You Don&#8217;t Think of When Starting a Business. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Will Montgomery</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7712</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Montgomery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7712</guid>
		<description>I just thought i&#039;d mention it for completness but I do a large amount of .net development (mainly c# and vb.net but I have done a good share of asp.net) and have a full visual studio 2008 license supplied by my employer. However there is an excellent open source .net ide called sharpdevelop that I use by choice over VS2008. The best thing is that its only a 20mb download instead of the 2 hour install process for vs. Although you will need to install any crystal reports support yourself.

check it out.
http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just thought i&#8217;d mention it for completness but I do a large amount of .net development (mainly c# and vb.net but I have done a good share of asp.net) and have a full visual studio 2008 license supplied by my employer. However there is an excellent open source .net ide called sharpdevelop that I use by choice over VS2008. The best thing is that its only a 20mb download instead of the 2 hour install process for vs. Although you will need to install any crystal reports support yourself.</p>
<p>check it out.<br />
<a href="http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill Craun</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7663</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Craun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7663</guid>
		<description>@R Kopitzke,

Amen brother. 

+1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@R Kopitzke,</p>
<p>Amen brother. </p>
<p>+1</p>
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		<title>By: Personal IT Experiences &#187; Economic Outlook Making You Think About Starting Your Own Business?</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7662</link>
		<dc:creator>Personal IT Experiences &#187; Economic Outlook Making You Think About Starting Your Own Business?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7662</guid>
		<description>[...] Expenses You Don&#039;t Think of When Starting a Business &#124; Software by Rob [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Expenses You Don&#8217;t Think of When Starting a Business | Software by Rob [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Darin Boyd / Braingerous</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7659</link>
		<dc:creator>Darin Boyd / Braingerous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7659</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed the post.  I think it&#039;s good to have a grasp of the actual financial requirements of your lifestyle and a sense of scale concerning your expenses.  

I agree that on the surface, the $2500 sounds like a lot of money.  Many people just don&#039;t have a grasp of what they actually need financially in order to support themselves. I have also noticed a lack of a sense of scale when it comes to money with many people.  That&#039;s why you have to be careful when hiring people who may be looking at your Quickbooks file as part of their job. Someone making $20K per year could think you were getting rich when they see more money than their annual salary in the company checking account.  Of course they don&#039;t know about Rob&#039;s list and the $3k in Google you&#039;re paying out every month.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed the post.  I think it&#8217;s good to have a grasp of the actual financial requirements of your lifestyle and a sense of scale concerning your expenses.  </p>
<p>I agree that on the surface, the $2500 sounds like a lot of money.  Many people just don&#8217;t have a grasp of what they actually need financially in order to support themselves. I have also noticed a lack of a sense of scale when it comes to money with many people.  That&#8217;s why you have to be careful when hiring people who may be looking at your Quickbooks file as part of their job. Someone making $20K per year could think you were getting rich when they see more money than their annual salary in the company checking account.  Of course they don&#8217;t know about Rob&#8217;s list and the $3k in Google you&#8217;re paying out every month.</p>
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		<title>By: Random Thoughts 01/09/2009 - New Comm Biz - New media strategies for business</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7658</link>
		<dc:creator>Random Thoughts 01/09/2009 - New Comm Biz - New media strategies for business</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7658</guid>
		<description>[...] Expenses You Don&#039;t Think of When Starting a Business &#124; Software by Rob [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Expenses You Don&#8217;t Think of When Starting a Business | Software by Rob [...]</p>
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		<title>By: keith alperin</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7648</link>
		<dc:creator>keith alperin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7648</guid>
		<description>Hi Rob, first time reader and caller.  Great post.  One option that you didn&#039;t mention in either post is to finagle a part time arrangement with your day job or take medium term consulting contracts (on the order of a few months).  In the former case, you can keep some cash flowing in while still freeing up time to grow your product business.  In the latter, you can take some time between contracts in order to do the same.  I&#039;ve tried both and both have worked well for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rob, first time reader and caller.  Great post.  One option that you didn&#8217;t mention in either post is to finagle a part time arrangement with your day job or take medium term consulting contracts (on the order of a few months).  In the former case, you can keep some cash flowing in while still freeing up time to grow your product business.  In the latter, you can take some time between contracts in order to do the same.  I&#8217;ve tried both and both have worked well for me.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-01-08 &#171; memor.ia blog</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7647</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2009-01-08 &#171; memor.ia blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7647</guid>
		<description>[...] Expenses You Don&#039;t Think of When Starting a Business &#124; Software by Rob (tags: memori.us startup) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Expenses You Don&#8217;t Think of When Starting a Business | Software by Rob (tags: memori.us startup) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hamd</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7644</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7644</guid>
		<description>Lpm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lpm?</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7642</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7642</guid>
		<description>I can run my biz on around $1000 per month for fixed expenses, but the start-up costs were around $10,000.  I&#039;m an independent, so don&#039;t have office lease or employees yet.

If you&#039;re in a specialized profession, you better count continuing education and professional associations.  And don&#039;t forget about the costs of networking (coffee and lunch meetings add up).

I quit my day job in order to start my business and it was a big adjustment for my family.  Be sure you have a contingency plan for the slow months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can run my biz on around $1000 per month for fixed expenses, but the start-up costs were around $10,000.  I&#8217;m an independent, so don&#8217;t have office lease or employees yet.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re in a specialized profession, you better count continuing education and professional associations.  And don&#8217;t forget about the costs of networking (coffee and lunch meetings add up).</p>
<p>I quit my day job in order to start my business and it was a big adjustment for my family.  Be sure you have a contingency plan for the slow months.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh of Cubicle Ninjas</title>
		<link>http://www.softwarebyrob.com/2009/01/07/expenses-you-dont-think-of-when-starting-a-business/comment-page-1/#comment-7641</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh of Cubicle Ninjas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwarebyrob.com/?p=306#comment-7641</guid>
		<description>A few really good notes here for entrepreneurs.

Though, I&#039;ve found you don&#039;t really need half of these or more. Anytime anyone tells you something is a necessary expense, I&#039;d recommend questioning it. Mostly this is people not taking the time to do a bit of legwork themselves.

But solid resource to start people thinking...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few really good notes here for entrepreneurs.</p>
<p>Though, I&#8217;ve found you don&#8217;t really need half of these or more. Anytime anyone tells you something is a necessary expense, I&#8217;d recommend questioning it. Mostly this is people not taking the time to do a bit of legwork themselves.</p>
<p>But solid resource to start people thinking&#8230;</p>
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